Life After Death

rhaine_patrick · **Joined:** Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:30 am **Posts:** 211

I know that most of us believe in life after death. I just want to ask few questions about it. If a man got blind because of an accident and died later on, will he regain his sight in his second life? How about those who are born blind, deaf etc. will they become normal at their second life?

Alixtair · **Posted:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:17 pm

Well, if a blind man dies in whatever way, his ghost/spirit will still be blind. When he is reborn into a human again, he will most likely get his sight back. Of course, in my belief, a part of hm will still be 'blind' as in not-spiritually open or he just needs glasses.
........
That sounds confusing the way I wrote it o.O.....

Yeah, I believe they will be normal again when they are reborn.

Zhenwu · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:02 pm **Posts:** 36

rhaine_patrick wrote:

I know that most of us believe in life after death. I just want to ask few questions about it. If a man got blind because of an accident and died later on, will he regain his sight again in his second life? How about those who are born blind, deaf etc. will they become normal at their second life?I think it's interesting you presume that most of us believe in life after death. What do you mean by this and how did you come to this conclusion?

I'll be up front and say that I have not made any ontological conclusions about life after death (either metempsychosis or transition to some realm for the dead) nor have I made any ontological conclusions about the existence or non-existence of a "soul." In other words, I do not necessarily believe in any lasting form of afterlife nor do I necessarily believe in anything resembling a soul, but neither do I discount their possibility. Ultimately, I would rather not make any ontological conclusions and do not think that existence and non-existence are black and white things anyway. I am, however, exploring certain avenues (such as Daoist immortalism) and assume the existence of something soul-like given certain contexts (for example I will assume the Shinto theory of One Spirit-Foul Souls and the Chinese Soul Complex when dealing with their respective practices). This may seem baffling to some people, but the purpose is to use belief as a tool to explore certain possibilities and perspectives in certain established contexts (i.e. the context of Shinto or the context of Daoism).

That being said, assuming there is life after death, if we are talking about a dead soul of a blind person moving to the land of the dead (whatever it may be) then I would say it depends on whether or not they were born blind. If they were not born blind, then I would say it depends on when they lost their sight. If they were born blind, I do not think they would gain sight upon death. Here is an interesting quote from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics:

Quote:

Supporting evidence can be found in the study of the dream and projection abilities of blind
people. It is fairly well known that blind people who have experienced sight before they became
blind are capable of having fully sighted dreams and projections. Obviously, if the physical
condition of the eyes were reflected into the sight capabilities of the projected double, physical
blindness would blind the projected double out of its body during an OBE — which is simply not
the case.
However, if the physical eyes had nothing to do with OBE perception, then people who have
been blind since birth (never experiencing sight) should also be able to see clearly during dreams
and projections — which unfortunately is also not the case. Therefore, OBE sensory perception
must also be dependent on the learned sensory reception capabilities of the physical brain, not the
current functioning or nonfunctioning abilities of the physical sense organs. These principles also
apply to profound deafness.

From Kerr, N., & Domhoff, G. W. (2004). Do the blind literally "see" in their dreams? A critique of a recent claim that they do. Dreaming, 14, 230-233 (can be found at ):

Quote:

In addition, we reassert the importance of the earlier sleep laboratory findings concerning the lack of visual imagery in those who are blind before age 4 as evidence for the idea that dreaming is a gradual cognitive achievement that requires the development of visual and spatial skills and other forms of imagistic skills as well.So, if a person had learned sensory reception capabilities (be it sight or hearing), then in the astral and in dreams they may experience these and I am assuming that upon death they may also be experience these things again. A person who never had these senses long enough to imagine them in dreams or OBEs, then I do not believe they would have them upon death.

If, however, we assume that the soul is inherently perfect and complete, then perhaps one could gain these faculties in the astral or in the afterlife through some sort of work. This has some pretty interesting implications. If someone who is born blind could have the ability to do spiritual work and truly gain sight in the astral or dream worlds, then that may add more credit to the idea that the "soul" is pure/perfect/complete. However, if it were possible to gain senses you never learned to become fully cognitive of in the imagination I think it is equally possible it isn't the function of an inherently perfect soul, but perhaps a matter mind/consciousness "plugging in" to experiences that were previously outside the realm of perception. (note: I generally assume the "soul", for lack of a better term, has the potentiality to become fully purified and perfected and that perhaps that is its inherent nature)

If we are talking about rebirth or reincarnation, then given a "Hindu" slant that depends on the person's karma. Based on their previous actions it may be due to karma that they are born again blind if they were blind at some point in their previous life. Maybe, after being blind, they will be born with the ability to see. It depends on karma.

_________________
"Taking the Origin as such, one penetrates the origin of origins; Taking the Original State as such, one sees the heart-mind." - Yuiitsu Shintō Myōbō Yōshū
「元元入元初　本本任本心」
唯一神道名法要集

YoukaiAlchemist2 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:26 am

O.O I'm almost legally blind. I find i can see perfectly well in my dreams (though this may be due to me wearing correctional lenses most of the time). Personally, i do believe in a soul, and that it may be a form of sentient energy. O-o pretty much the soul is the electrical impulses that keep the body alive. when the body dies, the soul moves on, either to become recycled in the physical world or to join the cosmos (universe or multiverse). while the soul is an energy,i think it is able to recall its former life(s) as clearly as we recall our own pasts. As for the blind man question, i do not think the soul "sees" in the normal sense. it has no organs, so physical sight doesn't matter. Rather i think it sense its surroundings and so is able to construct a mental image of it. >.> therefor in a way a blind man's soul could see.

o.o I RAMBLED!

Zhenwu · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:02 pm **Posts:** 36

YoukaiAlchemist2 wrote:

... Rather i think it sense its surroundings and so is able to construct a mental image of it. >.> therefor in a way a blind man's soul could see.I agree that the "soul" or "spirit" of a blind person would be able to sense their surroundings, but depending on when they went blind they may not be able to really create mental images. "in a way" would be the key phrase to pick up on in what you say. If they were born blind or became blind when still a baby their mind would not be able to imagine visual images and therefore the mind would not construct images during dreaming or OBEs. Because of this fact, it is plausible that the mind would not be able to construct images after death either. The nature of their spiritual sense perception would be different.

Here is another quote (the following paragraph from what I quoted earlier) from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics:

Quote:

Physical blindness does not prohibit OBE or the ability to project, but it does affect sensory
perception abilities. Spatial awareness perception, the sense of touch, hearing and other nonvisual
sensory perceptions — all very highly developed in blind people — are also greatly enhanced
during an OBE. This level of perception allows blind-since-birth projectors to sense and perceive
the out-of-body environment very clearly. This level of nonvisual sensory ability may, in many
ways, even be superior to normal sight during an OBE, as the case history below suggests.

Here is the case history referred in the above quote, again, from Astral Dynamics:

Quote:

My question to CB was "Could you please expound on your nonsighted condition and how you
perceive things during your OBEs?"
C.B.: I've been blind since birth. My optic nerves didn't develop while I was in
the womb, but I still have vivid OBEs and dreams. It's hard to explain just how I
sense things and get around while I'm out of my body, but I'll give it a try. I
experience no real difference between my OBE and dream perceptions. When I have
a dream or OBE, I am very aware of what is around me, but everything is always
three-dimensional. I can't perceive anything as two-dimensional, such as what's on
the surface of a picture, but can perceive the canvas and frame as a whole very
clearly. The area around me is extremely vivid in my mind, in all directions, and is
very detailed. This awareness is much stronger than my normal awake perceptions
are in my own home. When I project it's like I can feel everything around me, as if I
am continually touching everything with my fingers, with my mind, with my senses
reaching out and touching everything around me all at once. My senses extend a long
way, much further than usual, and I can feel into the distance around me in probably
much the same way as sighted people do with their eyes. I get around fine when I'm
out of my body, with no hesitation or doubt about my surroundings at all. I never
worry about bumping into things and can sense exactly what is ahead of me and
around me at all times. If I meet people during an OBE or dream, I can instantly tell
what they look like and what they are wearing, just as if I were running my hands all
over them. This isn't really sight, as I have no idea of what color or light is, but my
dream and OBE perceptions are about as close to sight as it gets for me.

_________________
"Taking the Origin as such, one penetrates the origin of origins; Taking the Original State as such, one sees the heart-mind." - Yuiitsu Shintō Myōbō Yōshū
「元元入元初　本本任本心」
唯一神道名法要集

rhaine_patrick · **Joined:** Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:30 am **Posts:** 211

Thanks for the explanations Zhenwu and sorry if I thought that most of us believe in afterlife. I asked many people and they say "Yes" that's why I assumed it.

Zhenwu · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:02 pm **Posts:** 36

rhaine_patrick wrote:

Thanks for the explanations Zhenwu and sorry if I thought that most of us believe in afterlife. I asked many people and they say "Yes" that's why I assumed it.I certainly don't think it's something you need to apologize for. I was just surprised when you said

rhaine_patrick wrote:

I know that most of us believe in life after death. Honestly, it is probably a pretty safe assumption and in the case of "us" being the current registered forum members then you may well be right that most do believe. I was just surprised at the statement and wanted some elaboration on what I thought was ambiguous (e.g. who is "us" exactly? how do you know we believe?). One reason why I was surprised is because there does seem to be a prevalence of belief (to varying degrees of conviction) in afterlife and I find it somewhat strange and interesting that this appears to be the case. I could explain it in that explanations of what happens after one dies and that an afterlife exists satisfies a basic human concern, but I personally don't know if that is fully satisfactory. I actually apologize if my response came across as too strong.

I hope that our (all those that gave input) responses helped you with your question.

_________________
"Taking the Origin as such, one penetrates the origin of origins; Taking the Original State as such, one sees the heart-mind." - Yuiitsu Shintō Myōbō Yōshū
「元元入元初　本本任本心」
唯一神道名法要集

RainStarDragon · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:57 pm

I found the input on how that particular blind man "sees" during his experiences very interesting. It's interesting to me that it is much the same as how I seem to perceive when I project... and I AM legally blind without my glasses.

As to the life after death matter, considering I have past life memories I certainly can't discount it. Also considering I've had experiences involving talking to my father after his passing this December (and he was as surprised as I during the last experience) it does seem to be another apparent fact in favor of continued existence for at least some people...

For someone becoming blind in one life to be reborn blind in another, I still think a lot of it has to do with genetics of the new body, environmental factors, possible accidents (karmic or not)... It might happen, it might not.

Something else I'd like to state is that, at least in apparitions and dreams involving my father, I've seen him as he was when I was very young, as he was before I was born, and at different ages up to as he had been shortly before his passing. This leads me to believe that at least appearance wise they can change as they wish, so perhaps to regaining or gaining of sight is a possibility.

Zhenwu · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:02 pm **Posts:** 36

RainStarDragon wrote:

Something else I'd like to state is that, at least in apparitions and dreams involving my father, I've seen him as he was when I was very young, as he was before I was born, and at different ages up to as he had been shortly before his passing. This leads me to believe that at least appearance wise they can change as they wish, so perhaps to regaining or gaining of sight is a possibility.I am curious, have you seen any video footage or photographs of your father from before you were born? If so, did his appearance approximate the ages he would be in these records?

RainStarDragon · **Posted:** Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:00 am

I've only seen one of him from before I was born, and that was when he was in his skinny, geeky (probably where I get that from), early 20's... hippie love beads of the time and all. No offense intended in this description of how he looked in that photo. I possibly might have seen one from when he was about three, but I'm not positive, there really weren't a lot of pictures of dad from when he was younger.

I described what I'd seen to my mother, who had been with him since about seven years before I was born. She was the one that verified that yes, that's what he used to look like from different periods of his life.

I'd love to get my hands on some pictures of him from his youth... but his foster/adoptive parents had most of the ones that were in existance. Sadly, after their deaths, their only biological child destroyed all the photos they had, both the ones I'd been allowed to see as a kid (g'ma and g'pa's trips to other countries) and "family" photos (most of which were kept away from all "children" to protect them).

Life After Death

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